The Patriots have been more than impressive to start the NFL season. 34+ points in nine straight games is, well, an NFL record that speaks for itself. With Pro Bowl caliber players on both sides of the football, the Patriots are the most complete, well coached, and flat out scariest team the NFL has seen since the 49ers of the 80's and the Cowboys of the mid-90's.
All that being said, I couldn't help but be bothered with the way New England finished their game against the Washington Redskins this past Sunday. I really felt that New England was running up the score on Washington in the 4th quarter, and I found it blatantly disrespectful. Now if you listened to Mike and Mike this morning, they both said they had no problem with what New England did. They took the stance that since the NFL is a professional league and all teams operate under the same financial restrictions, the playing field is even. Mike and Mike both saw no reason for "calling off the dogs". At the professional level, they argued, if you want the other team to stop scoring, you need to stop them.
While I understand where they are coming from, I have to disagree. I'm not sure if it is because I grew up with baseball and its unwritten rules, but I found myself completely angered by New England's play in the 4th quarter. I relate what New England did to Washington to a baseball team stealing bases with a fifteen run lead late in the game, with their closer warmed and ready to come in and pitch the ninth. At some point the manager respects the opponent enough to say enough is enough. That is why teams don't steal late in the game. That is why teams bring in the guy who hardly ever pitches to finish out the fifteen run games. While they are all professionals and they have the right to do whatever they want, they just shouldn't. It's sports etiquette in my opinion, and the Patriots have shown they have none.
I know someone out there will utter the phrase, "It ain't over till it's over". True. The greatest comeback in NFL history was the Bills and Oilers in the playoffs about fifteen years ago when the Bills came back from 35 down at halftime to beat the Oilers. Heck, the Texans came back 29 points on the Titans last week, and even though they lost, they almost came back to win. There are, however, a couple differences with this game that really showed this game was over. One, If a comeback was to occur by Washington, the earliest it could have possibly occurred was at the 11:02 mark in the 4th quarter. This wasn't Washington coming out charging after halftime. This was New England inside the Washington ten with 11 minutes left. Couple that with New England's top-flight defense, Washington's anemic offense, and New England's home field advantage...and yeah, this game really was over.
So with this game over in everyones mind (including Washington's...did you see their faces on the sideline?), New England attacked through the air in the fourth quarter- even with their back-up QB in. This boggles my mind. Of the 19 fourth quarter plays New England ran, 8 were passes. That's almost 50% passing with the game well in hand! Why not just run the clock out?
Let's look at a comparison quickly. The Colts were at Carolina this past weekend. They were on the road, and up 24-7 heading into the 4th quarter. Obviously they had far less of a commanding lead than New England did against Washington. The Colts, however, did the classy and respectful thing by running down the clock against the inferior opponent. The Colts, like the Patriots, had 19 offensive plays in the 4th quarter. Of those 19, 16 were runs. That's twice as many runs as New England. Could the Colts have passed all over the Panthers? You bet. They did all day. But they didn't when they didn't need to. They respected the Panthers and the game of football.
There are reasons that teams take knees at the ends of games. I'm not saying New England should have taken knees all fourth quarter, but I am saying they should have stopped passing the ball down field and going for it on fourth down. Mike and Mike are right, these athletes are not collegians, but rather professionals. They failed to see, however, that term applies very loosely to a team like the Patriots.
~Mikey D
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Did you also see that they said it is Washington's right to give the Pats a cheap shot for keeping Brady in? The Pats have been scoring Eff You TDs all season. Did you forget that they put Brady back in the game against the Dolphins after pulling him previously?
First, it is NEVER okay for another team to give cheap shots. Washington can be upset, and they have every right too! Mostly they should be embarrassed by the way they played, but also because the Patriots were completely disrespectful. But please, show the class the other team failed to show.
If there's one thing I don't have a problem with is the Patriot's leaving in their starters. If their head coaches want to leave in their A+ players to risk getting injured, that's his perogative. I'm sure the fans would much rather see Brady on the field in the fourth instead of Matt Guitierez. But just because you keep your starters on the field doesn't mean you have to throw it all over the field with a 38+ point lead over a hapless team. Just run the damn ball.
And I thought bringing Brady back was the right thing to do against the Dolphins. To begin with I thought they pulled him way to early. Wait until the fourth quarter to pull your starting QB; that should be mandatory. The Dolphins made a little run, Brady came back in, and the Dolphins got steamrolled. The difference is the Dolphins were showing signs of life, while the Redskins weren't.
The beginning of this article just about sums it all up:
http://sports.yahoo.com/fantasy/nfl/news?slug=ab-injuryreport_102907
I have the complete opposite viewpoint. I take it as disrespectful when a team doesn't try it's hardest to score. I fully expect my opponent to try his best to win, in whichever way he deems it necessary. For me, the Patriots were wrong to keep throwing and score a TD because it gave the ball back to Washington, who then broke the shutout. I would rather win 45-0 than 52-7. But if Belichek decides that he doesn't care about the shutout and wants to see what his backups can do, and not just handing the ball off, this was a perfect opportuninty to do so.
To me, disrespect is when the opponent stops playing at 100%.
All that being said, I think Belichek is just pissed off at the NFL for CameraGate, and running up the score is his form of revenge.
On a side note, it is really disheartening to see that the Patriots back-up QB, while playing less than a quarter, scored more fantasy points than both of my QB's combined.
And this from the same person who used to yell at me for trying to score on the computer in Madden up 30 with 15 seconds left...
I can't disagree with you more in your viewpoint.
At the professional level, it's usually the teams with the best talent that end up winning. Well when that team with the best talent is winning, and winning a lot, there seems little reason to me to keep scoring on the inferior team because you feel it's "respectful" to them. I'm sure if I played a bunch of second graders in basketball they'd really respect me if I kept blocking their shots up 40 points in a game.
And teams don't stop trying as they run the clock down, Kevin. They TRY and run the clock down. Instead of scoring more points, their focus shifts to ending the game as quickly as possible. Why? Because there is no need to score anymore. It's not being disrepectful to the opponent, because you are still trying to win. Your gameplan just changed. Instead of scoring that eighth TD, you TRY and run the clock down as much as possible. How can an opponent not respect TRYING to win the game that way?
While the other team might respect the competitiveness, the embarrassment (and yeah, they are embarrassed. Anytime you are considered a professional at something, you never want to be shown up like the way the Redskins were...hence the angry comments) and public beat-down far outweighs any respect given to the better team.
There's a reason for mercy rules, knees at the ends of games, not stealing up 15...it's not because the winning team is being disrespectful, it's because the winning team is not trying to make a public mockery out of it's opponent. That's respect. That's sportsmanship. That's sports etiquite.
If I was playing in a regular season game NBA game against second-graders, I would have absolutely no problem with blocking every single shot they tried to take. My goal would be a complete shutout of the second-grade team. I would be upset if the person I was defending even hit the rim. And I would expect the same mentality from actual NBA players if I was out there playing against them. I would expect to be dunked on every single time, no matter the score.
If I'm just playing around in gym class with a bunch of second-graders, it's different. It's not about winning, it's about having fun. So yeah, maybe I'll let them score when I'm up 40 =)
If I am the Washington defense, I want the Patriots to keep throwing. It will prolong the game and give my team a chance to score. I'm here to play hard until the final whistle, and I fully expect my opponent to have that same attitude.
From the Patriots side, I agree that they should be running out the clock. But not because of some percieved disrespect to the other team if they score again, but because it's the best way to ensure victory. I don't scold you for scoring on the computer in Madden because it would disrespect your opponent, I scold you because it's not the best option.
You are missing the entire human element though! Teams DO GO HARD FOR 60 MINUTES!!! They just do it respectfully.
In society we have established right and wrongs. I'm sure you can think of a plethora of examples. In sports it's no different. To be up 38 points and attacking through the air and going for it on 4th down is considered wrong and disrespectful. You can argue that from any side you'd like, but the sports world finds it disrespectful.
So when the Patriots are throwing, they are breaking the unwritten rules of football, thus being disrespectful. There is a manner in which they should have played where they are still going all out on the field, while still being respectful to the their opponent- and that is running the football. Try for first downs and running down the clock is still trying. Your goals should change at that point in the game. But just because your goals change, doesn't mean you aren't going all out on the field.
And if you were the Redskins, sure you'd want the Patriots to keep throwing- back in the 3rd quarter when you had a chance. When a team is so far out, Kevin, the only thing left they can leave with is their dignity. And the Patriots stripped the Redskins of that this past Sunday by running up the score.
Not everyone in the sports world finds it disrespectful, as you acknowledge in the second paragraph of your post.
And are you claiming that by the end of third quarter, when it was 38-0, that the Redskins defense could take pride in that performance; but the last two TD's from the Patriots somehow took away the Redskins pride?
You say that the Patriots embarrassed the Redskins. I say the Redskins embarrassed themselves.
I have always believed that if I play to my potential, if I do the absolute best that I can do, then I have nothing to be ashamed of on the field. I still have my pride when I'm out there on the hypothetical NBA court getting dunked on every possesion, as long as I'm working hard and trying my best to stop them.
The only person that can take away my dignity is myself.
If I pull your pants down in public (or something similar), do you not get embarrassed? Were you the one who pulled your pants down? No. I was. I was the one who embarrassed you.
The same applies with the Redskins.
Did the Redskins play embarrassingly awful? NO! They lost by a lot, but who hasn't to New England? Washington played it's best, and lost to a better team. Whether you think Washington could have played better is your opinion, but I've seen that team every week (literally), and it wasn't their bad play as much as much as New England's great play. I mean, what's Clinton Portis going to do if three guys are already in the backfield when he gets the ball? You could say the O-line could play better, but when you don't have the talent (you should know this as a Detroit fan) and you go up against a far superior defense, you are as good as fucked.
What New England did was uncalled for. They pulled the pants of the Redskins down in public. The Redskins didn't embarrass themselves in my opinion, it was the other way around. How many pundits did you hear talking about Washington's "bad play" compared to New England's dominance? About zero to a lot.
There's a reason why the fraternity of NFL coaches, from Don Shula to Bill Cowher, have been outspoken about the Patriots play. There's a reason the Redskins are upset, and it's not just because they lost (trust me, I hear all about it every day to work). And there's also a reason, however insignificant, that I the fan, have a problem with the way New England played in the 4th quarter.
And of course not everyone feels its disrespectful. A New England fan probably doesn't. That's a moot point. That's why this arguement even exists right now.
Okay, let me hear your thoughts on this:
In soccer, it is considered respectful to kick the ball out of bounds when an opposing player is injured, with the thought that the opposing player's team will throw the ball back inbounds towards your team.
If a team were to either,
a) not kick the ball out of bounds during the injury, or
b) not throw the ball back to the team who kicked it out of bounds,
would you consider that disrespectful? Again, this is one of those unwritten rules, but if we go by your philosophy, you should have zero problem with it.
Sports etiquette should mean something still.
Wow. My feeling is they should be putting in backups and running more of the time when the game is set. They shouldn't do that until some point in the 4th quarter. It is more respectful to just help end the game sooner. I don't think it's bad to the fans to put backups in during the 4th. Many of the fans were probably gone by that point anyway.
Good argument with the "kick out of bounds" point.
My question, what would the baseball equivalent be to "putting the back ups in and running the ball". Sure, they will make replacements in the lineup, but that is more about giving them playing time and getting the starters rest. I guess it would be swinging at the first pitch everytime, but nobody does that. Or, it probably would involve not stealing or playing "hit and run" ball.
The one thing you can't argue against is that this team REALLY seems to have a lot of attitude. It really seems like Belichek is trying to prove a point.
Why should I be embarrassed if you pulled down my pants in public? I'm not ashamed of my penis. (I know I'm setting myself up for a joke here...fuck you) Any embarrassment I feel is of my own creation.
If the Redskins played well, then losing, even by a large margin, is not embarrassing.
I stick by the above points.
But your point about the unwritten rules of soccer was a good point, and it makes me re-consider some things.
The more I think about it, the more I see it as about intent. It's not disrespectful in soccer to continue play if you are in the middle of a scoring a chance, or do not notice the player is down. If you do notice a player down and deliberately continue play, then I would agree that it would be disrespectful not to kick it out of bounds. And likewise it would be disrespectful for the other team not to throw the ball back.
I have to admit, I don't really know the unwritten rules of football. If Belichek was deliberately violating some unwritten rules, then I have to agree that it was disrespectful. But I have to ask, if it did violate the unwritten rules, why was Golic OK with it?
I think it's like you said, some people don't find it disrespectful. Perhaps Golic was never on the end the Redskins were? Perhaps he's just being a talk-show host and stirring the pot (although I don't think that's the case, but you never know). Whatever the case, I'm sure Golic isn't the only NFLer to share in your viewpoint. I still think the majority, however, would be on the other side.
And I don't think the Redskins are embarrassed by the way they lost. I haven't heard once this week about "they should have done this" or "they should have done that". They know they got beat by the better team.
You, however, should be embarrassed by your small penis. When a turtle has a bigger dick than you, you deserved to be laughed at and feel embarrassed. "Am I not turtley enough for the turtle club? Turtle, turtle!" But I'm sure there is something (although I don't know what) that I could do to you that would get the feeling of embarrassment out of you. You are right, only you can have that feeling; I can't give it to you. I can provoke it though, yes?
I think you're right, intent does have a lot to do with it. If you're on your way to scoring, I have no problem with continuing play, and I can't see why the other team would either (except for the fact they're about to get their asses scored on). I question the Patriot's intent on Sunday though. Like Adam said, they are basically on a war path of destruction trying to prove a point, whatever that point is. What was their intent throwing all over the field in the fourth quarter?
By the way, Stephen A. Smith argued on your side yesterdy. When having a debate, is there anything more detrimental to a side than having Stephen A. agree with you =)? My ears still hurt from his verbal tongue lashing.
Stephen A. Smith agrees with me?! Then that's the final nail in the coffin...I must be wrong.
I am almost sorry to bring this up and continue the discussion, but I found this article on ESPN today.
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/highschool/news/story?id=3088759&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab5pos1
The coach told his players to go out of bounds at the 5 so they could kick a field goal. This is taking "respect" way too far!
That is taking it way too far. The guy took out his starters and ran the ball...that's enough! To tell your players to stop trying to score is ridiculous. Here's where I completely agree with what Kevin said, how if I were an opponent I'd want the other team to be trying. The team that was up was purposely trying to not try.
Nobody would have faulted the team that was up if they just ran the clock down and ran 45 straight running plays. And they also wouldn't have faulted them if they scored 10 more times as a result. To go out at the five to kick a field goal is more embarrassing to the other team.
We just need to find a happy medium =).
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