Thursday, July 16, 2009

Hmmm...

I'm having a bit of an internal debate right now...I can't decide if this "opportunity" that seems to have presented itself is, well, morally right? Maybe you guys can help.

So for the past week or so I have been playing cards online again. Last year I doubled my money in a matter of weeks, and with some of the extra downtime I have now, I thought I would give it another shot and see what happened. Well after about a week I made a grand total of .80 (hey, at least it's a profit, right?) and had been beaten countless times by ridiculously bad beats. Frustrated (I swear I must have been beaten on the river at least 5 times at table tournaments after making the right call/read...I know, I'm venting right now), I just decided to call it quits. Leave with what I came in with, right? Right.

So to make a withdrawal is rather simple. You enter the amount of money you want back, and they send you a check or they will transfer it to your checking account. And they don't charge a fee, which is great. So in a few days I should have all my money back...and 80 extra cents. Woo!

What's interesting about the site though is that you can't deposit money from your checking account. In order to deposit money, you have to have a credit card...like an American Express card, which I used.

Now I have a "Blue" American Express card which is big on the "cash back" rewards. The more I spend, the more I get back in rewards. Currently I get 1% back on all my everyday purchases (gas, grocery, drugstore) and .5% on everything else. Not much, but hey, better than nothing. There is an incentive to spend more, however, that would increase my rewards. Once I spend $6500, I get 5% back on my everyday purchases, and 1.25% on everything else (it resets every year though...it's not like I earn 5% for the rest of my life once I reach the goal of $6500).

So back to the poker. To make a deposit, I used my American Express card, which was charged...and pushed me closer to my $6500 limit. And then I withdrew the money through my checking account, and will pay off my credit card balance with the withdrawal. Do you see where I'm going with this???

Theoretically I could deposit $6500 into my poker account using my American Express card, reach my reward limit, withdraw the funds from my poker account, and pay off my balance. I would reach my new reward threshold, AND I would have actually made .5% of my $6500 charge back ($32.50) in rewards. I would be making money by doing nothing by shifting funds in a circle!

But...while taking advantage of this apparent loophole, I feel dishonest. I feel like I'm stealing, even though technically I am well within my rights to deposit and withdrawal money. Now I know the poker site would say that if I'm depositing money into their site, I should probably play with some if it...but there are no restrictions or rules saying I have to. Again, I'm not doing anything that isn't against my legal right.

So what would you do? 5% back on my grocery and gas bills for the rest of the year sounds nice. But is it morally wrong?

~Mikey D

9 comments:

Kevin said...

Morality is a very subjective term, so what might be immoral for one person may not be immoral for another.

The main question to ask is: would your conscience bother you if you did it?

Personally, I don't see any problems with it, but I probably wouldn't do it.

It's the intent to "beat the system" that would drag on my conscience. Doing it solely for the purpose of getting the reward threshold.

If I deposited $6500 with the intent of gambling with it, and then for some reason decided I didn't want to play poker anymore or found something else I needed that money for, I wouldn't feel bad about withdrawing the money and getting a reward bonus.

The intent to deceive is what kills it for me. But that's just me.

Mikey D said...

I guess judging by the fact I haven't done it already means I probably won't do it. Like you said, I don't really find any problems with it, I just probably won't do it.

Your "intent to deceive" comment...who am I deceiving? The poker site? If so, that doesn't bother me so much. It's true the poker site doesn't actually see a penny of my money, but it's also true that they don't lose any of theirs. They are merely my go-between that I am using, but not hurting.

It's powerful American Express I feel I'm deceiving...basically making a purchase of...well, my money...and then taking in the reward money as well.

I was just curious who you felt I would be deceiving.

Mikey D said...

I have to admit though, it's a weird feeling knowing you basically could have "free money" (I know you can debate that...but you know what I mean), and then choosing not to take it.

I wonder, given the choice and the resources, would the average person do the same?

Kevin said...

You are deceiving the credit card company by claming that you were intending to spend that money on poker, when in fact you had no intention of spending that money at all.

Kevin said...

And by claming, I mean claiming.

Kevin said...

I would say that most people don't do it, because it hasn't happened enough for American Express to close the loophole or change its policy.

Mikey D said...

Well I can assume most don't do it, but if they had the opportunity, would they?

Kevin said...

I guess if you put the "average" person into your exact same circumstances, I would say it would be about 50-50.

Adam said...

It's almost a legal form of money laundering because it is your money. I probably would not do it in fear that something illegal would happen to my money somehow and that's way too much to lose. If I were guaranteed it would work to plan? I am not sure. I agree that morality depends on the eye of the beholder.